HREOC Website: Isma - Listen: National consultations on eliminating prejudice against Arab and Muslim Australias

Consultations
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|| Meeting Notes: 7 June 2003

Consultation with young Muslim
women hosted by the United Muslim Women's Association, Sydney, 7 June
2003

The meeting was chaired
by Ms Maha Krayem Abdo, Coordinator of the United Muslim Women's
Association, and facilitated by Omeima Sukkarieh and Susanna Iuliano (notes)
from HREOC. It was attended by 15 invited participants who have been working
together to produce the magazine Reflections.

Reflections
is a new magazine written by young Muslim women for all young women across
Australia. The magazine was launched in September 2003. It aims to educate
both Muslims and non-Muslims about the beliefs and practices of Islam
as well as the misconceptions about the religion. See http://www.reflections.org.au

1. What are your experiences
of discrimination and vilification?

In public places

Wearing the hijab
was recognised by the participants as a significant risk factor in public
places.

"I was working
for a law firm in the city, and obviously I am going to notice it a
lot more because I have just started wearing it [ie the hijab] and I
was called a terrorist by some men in business suits which was not expected.
It totally shocked me. At Circular Quay Station, a group of students,
they didn't have their uniforms on, they walk past and call you Bin
Laden."

"That happened
when we were walking to the Mosque. We were all wearing the hijab and
some car comes past and guys call out 'terrorist' and they start screaming
out 'Bin Laden, Terrorist' and we were all like 'what's going on.' It
happens a lot outside the mosque."

"It happens
everywhere. You get stupid comments everywhere. Like when people tell
you to 'go back to Lakemba'."

"My friend
lives in Blacktown and every time things happen to her. Once she got
spat on because of her scarf and every time she walks home from the
station to her house the cars beep at her and scream at her. She is
Pakistani."

"It seems to
happen a lot with women who are on their own and they intimidate you
because you are on your own. It's like it gives them justification because
they see a female with a hijab. I live on my own and go out on my own
so quite quickly I adjusted to hearing these things. When I first started
wearing the scarf it was very difficult."

"When I was
in Year 12 and there was the rape incident, we missed the school buses
and we had to catch the public buses on the main street. We were sitting
there and this lady came in front of us and she was making really bad
actions and it was to do with the rape. She was poking out her bottom
and patting it and stuff like that. And it was bad as she was doing
it and pointing at me and doing all the actions. My friends all wanted
to scream and my friends are not all Muslims, they are Arabs and they
wanted to tell her off. You could tell it was because of that and when
I saw her after that I was so scared of her. I shouldn't be feeling
like that. Another time, when I was working in Woolworth's she [the
same lady] came up to me and asked for something and she couldn't even
talk and she wanted my help and I just looked at her."

On public transport

"When
the Melbourne to Launceston plane incident happened, I was in Canberra
conducting cross cultural awareness training for the Australian Federal
Police. People were talking about it and I had no idea what was happening.
It had just happened when we were on the edge of coming into Sydney
and people do not even have to ask me as they assume straight away that
you do not speak English or there is something wrong with you or they
talk over you all the time. When we were on the plane, two businessmen
that were talking about it were sitting behind my husband and they were
saying, 'I wonder which organisation does he belong to? Is he Muslim?
Is he this, is he that?' I had the urge to say 'Will you just shut up'.
The way the whole plane were looking at us was unbelievably weird."

"I was catching
a bus once because the trains were not working. I went on the bus and
I asked him is this to Lidcombe and he [the bus driver] was just staring
at me. He was Asian himself. I was thinking he couldn't hear me. He
says to me 'get off'. I was in complete shock. Usually I would have
said something but because that was my first experience I just got off
the bus. I was a paying customer."

At work

"People
are always surprised that Woolworths allows Muslims to work there. Like
for example Arab customers: you can tell which ones are not Muslims
because they have a cross and stuff. They will say 'Are you Australian?
How come they let you work here? Is it all right?' They think it is
not possible."

One important theme
in this meeting was participants' experience that they are expected somehow
to represent Islam, to be experts in the religion and to justify the actions
of other Muslims in a range of contexts including at work, at University
and even at school.

"My friend,
when she got a job at Kmart she had to keep answering questions about
Islam, mostly from guys. They said to her 'Did you know that you are
the first ever Muslim girl who wore the hijab to work in this store'.
She was 20 years old and she was like 'They treat me so mean because
I was the first girl who ever worked there'. So it is like if you wear
the scarf you are representing the whole community. But we're not experts.
We do not know everything about our religion. We always have to watch
what we do and we always have to explain ourselves. Sometimes even if
I make a little mistake they are like 'See she is a terrorist. Look
what she does'."

"I was working
for a prominent law firm in the city and this was before I wore my scarf.
I was one of their best employees, very hardworking, most accurate.
But as soon as I put the scarf on I was harassed, I had girls laugh
at me, I was secluded. They would always have their lunches in pubs
and so obviously I didn't go. In my work I had constant appraisals which
were positive. So I finished my fourth month and had my appraisal after
that saying that I am a bad worker, that I am lying, I am cheating,
I am hiding things from them. So I gave them my resignation and walked.
Luckily I had previous good past references and I have never been out
of work for longer than a week. But as soon as I put the scarf on I
was out of work for two and a half months. Only recently I have found
a position. I went for sixteen interviews at different law firms. If
I hadn't had the scarf on I would have had a job within the week."

The group briefly
discussed the difficulties posed for them by the Australian habit of bonding
over alcohol drinks.

"If you have
an employee bonding at a pub that is straight exclusion as there are
conflict of interests here. Perhaps it is a culture thing and it is
accepted. Like the ham sandwich thing. That is where the line is, when
you start to put people off side because they think that their rights
have been trampled on. I think that is the key because we do not want
to be hated because I am a Muslim or treated special because I just
want the same as everyone else."

"A young Australian
girl always feels that pressure to have a drink. There is always that
in Australian society anywhere. My husband is very tolerant. He would
sit at the table with alcohol and with pork dinners and not say anything.
But now that we have small children and we go to birthday parties and
I say to them 'My kids can't have chips' it is like you are asking the
world."

"You should
be accepted as how you are. You shouldn't have to copy Aussie culture
so you can become so similar. We do not have to do these things to become
Australian. We already are Australian."

One participant compared
her generation, born in Australia, with her parents' generation of new
migrants. She felt those born here experience somewhat less pressure to
conform but also more commitment to maintaining their identity.

"Our parents
were leaving their country so maybe they just want to make a new start
when coming here and conform. Now we want to maintain our past and identity
and especially our Lebanese and Islamic identity. I think that we are
being more forceful in showing people what we are and that we are not
so Australian and that we are not going to conform to the Aussie way
of life whatever that may be. I think we want to be different yet be
the same. We are not going to conform to how they want us to be but
we want to be treated the same."

Some of the participants
had worked at polling stations during the recent State election. They
described their experiences working with voters.

"People assume
you are not English and they try to correct your grammar when you know
you have spoken perfect English. People look at you [and] they just
don't want to be with you [ie line up to have their names ticked off
the roll]. They don't want to be with you because you have a hijab on
and they just stare at you. They give me that look from top to bottom
and they go stand behind a whole row of people who are waiting for someone
without the hijab. [When I was opening the ballots] you sit there and
read on them messages people wrote like 'the f ...ing Muslims' and 'send
them back to their own countries' and I was the only Muslim there, and
things like 'Osama Bin Laden' this and that. It was just one after the
other. For example, I was saying to people 'This is for the small ballot
papers and this is for the big ones.' And people were like 'I can read.
Don't assume I am ignorant like you'. One after the other. But I had
one good comment where one woman said 'I really like the fabric of your
scarf' and it made me so happy. All these old angry people."

"I was an usher
at the polling booths and I was telling them to go this way and a lady
comes in and I tell her which way to go and she says 'I can see what
desk is free'. Like 'ok, I am just telling you which way to go'. And
she was like 'well I don't have to take orders from you'. I said 'I'm
not giving you orders. I am just making the line go faster. This is
what we do'. And she said 'Well how can they employ someone like you?
These are Australian State elections and you are not even Australian.
I'm going to talk to the Electoral Commission'. Another lady came up
to me and I was explaining what you had to do to vote as I was told
to tell everybody else. She said to me 'It is an and not what'. I said
'That is exactly what I said to you.' And she said 'No, no, no you remember
that there is a difference between this word and that word'. I just
really had enough. I was close to tears; I hadn't had lunch and I had
had so many stares."

These workers felt
they had received no support from polling booth supervisors on the day
or since.

"Someone should
be in charge there to say 'No, this is not acceptable'. There was no
formal procedure for complaining."

At University

"I did
comparative religion as a course and one of the topics was Islam. The
lecturer who had apparently a PhD, a doctor in what he was lecturing,
was quoting from Geraldine Brooks 'Nine Parts of Desire' in a lecture
for a whole two hours. With total disregard to myself as a women with
the hijab on, he just said how Muslim women are oppressed. He gave a
historical background of Islam which is absolutely untrue. I suppose
again it is a thing where I must respect the teacher. I wanted to say
something but I felt like I was totally ignored and I didn't know how
to express myself in the class. I was very angry, I was almost reduced
to tears, and I wanted to cry. ... I sent that teacher an email and I
expressed my views. I did it in such a respectful manner as well and
I did not say anything bad about him. I received no reply. I know that
he and [my other] teacher maybe discussed it for two hours the next
week and yet I still haven't received a reply. Post September 11th it
seemed like every class I went to I had to sit there and justify who
I was, what I was, what I believed, the position of Muslim women and
that we are not terrorists. It took a lot of energy out of me. Each
time I came home I would cry."

Another student described
her experience with a guest lecturer on Islam in a course on the history
of the Middle East. The student was offended by the approach taken by
the guest lecturer and disputed some of her points.

"I keep directing
her and then she just stopped and looked at me and said 'Obviously you
are looking at different sources than I am looking at. Go back and look
at your sources'. I was like 'I have been brought up as a Muslim and
I read the Koran and so I know what I am talking about'. And she goes
'Well maybe you are from Phoenicia or some sort of division'. ... It makes
a difference if you have a lecturer who is open minded."

"They probably
do know what they're doing but they don't care. What matters is that
they are up there and they are speaking, they are giving their opinion
not facts but they are making it seem as to be facts. The students that
are there are walking out of that lecture thinking that they are the
facts and they are the future journalists. They are the future. And
we end up taking the blame and responsibility and the need to justify
everything to everyone and that really puts you so down."

"On my first
day in my Arabic and Islam lecture - the professor is really good -
we were talking about women and inheritance. He said 'The men get double
and I don't think this is fair' and he started to give his opinion.
I said 'Well why isn't it fair?' He said 'In the modern times women
work'. ... He is taking his own opinion into that lecture and students
are taking on that view. The people that you work with or work beside
if they had been sitting in all these lectures hearing all this stuff
all about Middle Eastern history and what is Islam, what happens when
they come out to be your employer or colleagues?"

At school

"My school
is bad. This girl is like 'you wog' and stuff and she thinks it is funny.
She is like 'the wogs came to our suburb and they are taking over our
suburb, they are all wogs.' You can't let people say that to you. You
have to let people know where they stand there thinking if they say
wog it is funny but it is not."

"I remember
when I was at school and September 11th had happened and we had the
running for school captaincy and I was running for school captain and
I wanted to say something but I felt that if I said something that position
would be stripped off me. The day it ... the principal came to my class
and pulls me out he goes 'You better watch what you are saying in class
before ...' I go 'what did I say?'. And he said 'the teacher said to me
that you said if you were given the chance you would have actually stood
on the table and started screaming in class'. I said 'Seriously sir,
I didn't do anything'."

This student felt
that one of her teachers was deliberately provocative, baiting her by
raising sensitive issues for classroom discussion. "I do not have to
justify myself to anyone and this is when I wore the scarf. This teacher
was actually my art teacher. I based my art on Islamic prejudices and
she hated it and she would look at it and she would actually want to change
my art work for me."

Other students had
more mixed experiences with teachers at school.

"When you are
good they are good to you. When I was in school in Year 12, I was the
only one wearing a hijab and teachers were so nice to me as I was in
the top classes and I was doing well. Then they were saying to me 'You
are not like those other Lebanese boys who are in the bottom classes.
You are different to them.' In Economics in Year 12 we were learning
about the unequal distribution of wealth and the teacher played this
video which was on all the honour killings in Jordan and it was just
after the gang rapes as well. I was like 'What does this have to do
with economics?' After we finished the video [the teacher asked me]
'what do you think of that?'"

"I think we
were doing history and I think it was about American civilisation. Every
time, before or after we would speak about Afghanistan, she [the teacher]
would come, as we had Afghans in our class, she would come and say 'Can
I speak to you at the end?'. And then she would say 'I'm sorry if I
ever said something. Or if you do not want me to speak about it, just
tell me. Or if you want to leave, you can'. And we said 'Don't worry
you are not saying anything wrong'. She was good and understanding."

Others described
the burden of being expected to be experts on Islam.

"The thing
about being from one of the local schools around here in an area where
Muslims are, well there is a lot of Muslims. I went to a school where
there was 93% Muslims, and you still had a lot of teachers who came
up to you and expected you to know everything. It put pressure on teenage
girls who were developing; where these girls are going through their
own physical changes let alone going through world, national and political
changes."

"My little
brother is in Year 1 and he had to defend what Islam was. Why does a
6 year old have to debate politics with his teacher?"

Provision of an appropriate
space to pray was not assured in participants' school experiences.

"We don't really
have a prayer room. We use the store room."

"Some schools
don't have prayer rooms but our maths teacher gave us a special key
but we had to hide it, otherwise we would have had to do what we did
before, which was pray on wet grass."

Issues about uniforms
continue to arise.

"In PE we used
to be forced to wear shorts but now we are allowed to wear tracksuit
pants and in Ramadan we are allowed not to do PE. Swimming costumes
are usually an issue for Muslim girls though."

"There isn't
such a huge awareness about Muslim dress. My teacher once told me to
tuck my shirt in but I couldn't, so I got detention. We usually get
detention for school uniform issues."

"Our scripture
teacher keeps telling us off about our uniform. We aren't provided with
appropriate uniforms. There should be something uniform in place."

"When I changed
schools to Macarthur Girls High School, you were only allowed to wear
pants if you were a Muslim, but you needed a permit card to do it."

In using public services

One participant described
a recent change of policy at Bankstown Hospital's ultrasound unit. The
only ultrasound technician was male and recently a patient's husband became
upset because of the male technician touching his wife and there was an
altercation. The Hospital rules that husbands and partners would be excluded
from the unit until the last five minutes of the examination when they
could enter to see the foetus on the screen.

"So there is
no awareness. For a hospital where most Muslim women will go and have
their babies, you would think they would know. There is no teaching
there and then they have taken out the policy that because of this incident
no men are allowed to come in, whereas any other hospital you are allowed
to. If you have just got married and you have come to Australia and
you speak no English, you are from a Muslim country, and then the first
thing that happens is that you are taken away from your husband and
put into a room with two men and you are being examined from your belly
button to your pubic bone, how are you going to cope? Why should you
have to be under that pressure when any other hospital in Sydney you
can go with your husband? You book your ultrasound and there is no 'Ok
you are a Muslim; you have sensitive needs; do you realise that for
this appointment you will have to go in by yourself ? Would you like
to bring another female?' Why can't they say this?"

"My sister
gave birth a couple of weeks ago and she was next to these Lebanese
Christians and they were really nice people. [Their baby was] six weeks
premature and he [the father] wanted a separate room. He got into a
fight and argument. The cleaner comes up to my sister and says 'Ah see,
they are all the same. They are so aggressive. I bet it is an arranged
marriage'. My sister said 'I am a Muslim. Your lot are known for cleaning
like the Lebanese are known for arranged marriages. The cleaner goes
'Not all Yugoslav people clean'. And my sister goes 'Yes well not all
Lebanese people have arranged marriages'. Then my sister goes 'You know
that women wasn't Muslim don't you?' And the cleaner just stopped."

In the media

"People
who watch SBS or ABC empathise, but they know already it is mainstream
media like Channel 9 or 10 that is the most majority watched and mostly
the ones that are vilifying Muslims and Arabs. That is where you get
all those attitudes coming out of. They watch TARBS also."

"Media is the
major force behind most of our problems. SBS and ABC are preaching to
the converted. It's the commercial media that are vilifying Muslims
and Arabs."

"They actually
say in the letters [to the editor] we don't want them, send them back
to where they came from. How can they let them say that in the media?
They are broadcasting it everywhere."

Responses and impacts

"So much
stuff has happened to us but now we are so used to it, so we might think
we are being a bit paranoid and so that is why we might not want to
speak out. ... We say to ourselves 'I'm not going to talk about this incident
that happened on the train or when I was on my way to Uni or as I was
walking'. We say 'ignore it and it will go away'. For example, nobody
knows what happens at schools. You tolerate your teachers and that is
part of our practise. We respect and we tolerate even though they're
in the wrong."

"You always
get stares and stuff. When I first put it on [the hijab] you think oh
my god. But now if I am on a train and an old lady for example is giving
me the dirty I just think that she is probably angry at everyone. I
always see it but think who cares if she is angry."

"Everywhere
you go and you have a new encounter with somebody new, 60% to 70% of
your energy is putting in extra energy and effort to justify yourself.
I can speak English; I am the most articulate person in the room; I
am so well presented; I am educated; I am all this stuff. Why should
you have to do that? You just can't concentrate on what you are there
to do which is look for a job or study or whatever it is. You get sick
of it."

"I think they
have brought this thing around themselves that they think you can't
go anywhere by yourself. My mum is always like 'Go around with someone.
You know what is happening in the media. You shouldn't be going around
by yourself'."

"[After September
11] I was going shopping in the city. I was all by myself and I didn't
have much time and I was rushing around getting all the stuff I needed.
I think it was because I was by myself and walking quickly. I think
it attracted a lot of attention and there was this swarm of security
guards just everywhere and people just staring at me. I was thinking
in the back of my head maybe it is because I'm walking too quickly.
I was thinking these people are scared - should I be here? Why am I
here? I can just do this in Bankstown or something. Should I be putting
these people out, scaring them, while they are just trying to shop.
That is what I was thinking."

"I just went
from a private Islamic school to public school. I have friends coming
up to me and they are talking about September 11th and they just keep
going. I was like I am not even going to bother to try to explain. You
get sick and tired of the stupidity."

"You explain
yourself so many times that you don't want to explain it anymore. Like
when you are doing a subject at Uni and a whole semester focuses on
the demonisation of Islam. It's like every class is about Islam only,
and you're expected as a Muslim women to sit there and speak for two
to three hours of the class, justifying."

"Out there
people think if you don't conform, why should you be here; why don't
you just pack your bag? These are attitudes that come out all the time.
If you do not all conform to what we do then all of you go back to where
you came from. Now when does this become racial discrimination? This
is printed in local newspapers where there are people aged 15 or 16
reading them and it affects us. How do we cope with that? We are young
people who have to deal with all of these stresses and stuff and no-
one is thinking how are we supposed to cope with all this pressure and
trauma. And we are being told to go back to somewhere we have never
been or seen. Imagine being told you are not welcome to the only place
you have ever known. That is what is happening."

Several participants
commented on the impacts on their freedom of movement caused by heightened
national security-related surveillance of the Muslim community.

"Your parents
get stressed if you go to an event. Say there is a [religious] lecture
or a class or something. They are afraid you are not going to come home.
It is so frustrating because you want to learn; you want to prove yourself
and you can't go as the place might be bugged and you will be investigated."

"If you have
a religious identity they think you are going to be targeted and they
think of you."

3. What more could be done
to fight anti-Arab and anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination?

Ethnic descriptors.

"We don't want
them to judge us by incidents. They make little issues come out just
because a Lebanese guy did it. If you want to bring out that issue why
don't you bring out all the crimes and see. They make things worse and
that is why it affects us. Because we go to school, we go to Uni, we
are in the news, and if you are in the news what do you think? How is
labelling ethnicity going to fix it?"

Need for consultation.

"We would like
to speak to these people, who are the writers of these stories? Who
are the producers that are putting these things out? We want to say
do you know the ramifications of what you are doing? Do you know the
effect you are having on young people? Who are the politicians making
these laws? How do they come up with these laws? Do they go out there
and consult people? Do they go around nationwide state to state and
ask what has happened to you? Who do they go to? They do not go to where
it really counts where it is really hurting."

Community representation
in government.

"There are
less Chinese than there are Muslims, but in local government there are
more Chinese representatives than there are Muslim representatives.
I think that is a problem. We need to get local people on board and
I think we can as a community do it because we do not have a voice at
the moment. Have a look at the Australian breakdown and how much the
Chinese and their politicians are achieving for them."

"I think it
is important to have people raise their voices. Especially to the ones
in Canberra they really do not know what is affecting people and how
much."

Suggestions for schools.

"Teachers need
to realise that what they say has an effect on the students, their perception.
A lot of the teachers are ignorant and need to be educated about that."

"If kids get
discriminated against they should find it easier to go to the teacher
and report racism, not hard."